Curse

Lordhelmos · Jan 03, 2007, 05:44 AM // 05:44

After playing nightfall, it could see that it was a cry to improve the storytelling and player immersion in the game. With the addition of titles in the guild wars system players can create an identity for their character to some degree, but the game overall suffers from not being immersive in the PVE experience as MANY other online games out there, namely WoW and EVE.

Nightfall is a Co-oP RPG, but however the plotline of all three games don't really care who your character is or what background you have created for yourself. The game just mindlessly thrusts you into the service of some hastily crafted faction like the white mantle or the shining blade. The game experience begins to feel as if players have little control over what is going on in the world of the game.

Guild Wars is by far one of the BEST online games out there. The system is fantastic and it also boasts great PVP but it is still missing some of the most basic elements of RPG style play. One of those elements is control over character development through the storyline. We all want to make a name for ourselves in the online world and just slapping a farmed title on a character just isn't enough.

With chapter 4 in the works, the introduction of a great hero system, and the closure of one of the games major plot and loops with Nightfall, this is a good time to look back at the history of the game and start fresh with a new kind of storytelling that could change the guildwars universe for the better.

Progressive Questing

Progressive questing in an RPG is basically the freedom to take a number of quests that eventually lead to newer and more complex paths that reveal more of the game's major plot devices and lore. The questing system of guild wars is an attempt at progressive questing but becomes grinded down to a series of "tasks" rather than immersive journies. Many of them are irrelevant side storys that quickly tie a missing link and lead to dead ends. Many of the keining city quests are like this, in which you complete the task for a small reward and that plotline simply ends with no continuation.

Some good attempts include the quests in Domain of Anguish that tie the link between Shiro and Nightfall and the Athlea's quest that progressed through several back to back tasks before you figured out what really happened to her.

For more effective question, the quests offered in guild wars should carry more weight toward the plot of the game, as in reveling plot twists as to who really is behind a malicious evil or maybe dropping some hints here and there. Also the questing system should fork and allow the players to pursue a specific question regarding the games plot and lore.

For example the first quest near a town might involve some shadowy monsters spawning in a nearby graveyard. You kill those monsters and after the quest have a choice to kill the last remaining on or question it and allow it to escape. Through that choice the quests may branch through 2 paths that allow the acquisition of different heros and allow the players to reach certain areas of the map quicker than other quests might allow. (Similar to what was tried with the hero choices in nightfall but much more in depth, the player should be kept in the dark as to where he is being lead by his choices, with only a select amount of hints. Discovery is an important element in an RPG.)

To take the alternate path, one might be able to abandon the quest and talk to another NPC for a quest that leads on a different route. This would be useful for players that want to take the same quest route as their friends.

Quest completion should also impact on how NPCs see your character. Wether a town trusts you or not, perhaps you might get discounts or prices jacked a tiny bit higher after doing certain quests. Through certain quests you might earn the trust of a weapon crafter that might build you arms with skins that are not usually so common.

There might be two rivals towns having a small scale war and you might choose to assist one side, granting your access to better wares on one side with unique skins and perhaps ultimately a hero that joins you.

Another good idea would be NPC guilds in the storyline that you may choose to assist. These guild missions might allow you access to certain halls or outpost with skill trainers that teach you a unique set of abilities, some may even be PVE specific.

Quests in guildwars should be expanded to allow richer rewards and grant the players access to areas that might contain optional side quests involving PVP areas. Quests should also impact the way the guildwars universe treats a player. As more and more quests are finished, towns learn to trust players more and allow them entry, or maybe special NPCs visit them and offer a new branch of quests that may lead the the aquisition of new skills at the risk of the player's status and prestige to the "good" community. It could be something as simple as a quest fork between two merchants competing to sell a player two sets of wares.

There should be temptations in quests. Quests that offer risks but may have you end up becoming the target of a powerful NPC guild or order, such as a police force that governs a specific area but secretly thrives with corruption. A player might take quests to oppose them and eventually ally with a rebel faction, gaining skills unique to that side. Or the player might become immerse in the corruption of the force and rise in ranks on their side.

Certain factions your aligned with might not want you to go to a specific place. You might be part of an order and visit a town against their orders, causing them to become hostile to you in that area. You may find a town where they are slaving people to build some weapon and have the choice to either side with slaves or subdue them for your faction.

Maybe these quests might lead to conflicts with other players, and lead to new PVP arenas similar to aspenwood.

Questing for specific guilds or factions allows you to have benefits, much like the luxons and kurzicks. Decreased item prices, armor, weapons, skills, and heros.

It would be possible to have everything at once, but you would have to play through several unique story branches. This would all be done as split questing....

Split Questing:

Take prophecies for example. Instead of getting thrust into the white mantle or the shining blade you could be offered quests that reveal more about each one.

SPOILERS:

Quest: A Brothers Fury
You complete the quest and find out the shining blade murders the Justicar's brothers. You reach the Wilds Mission.

Mission: The Wilds
You find out the shining blade is capturing the chosen, they claim the spiders that attacked the chosen was an unitentional mishap. They allow you to leave for the moment, telling you the mantle is evil but you are torn between trusting them and the order that your serve.

Quest Split:
~1~ Journey to Quarrel Falls: Evennia has left you with a mysterious message to discover the truth of the white mantle. You may take this quest to meet the shining blade in a secret hideout deep within Maguuma if you trust them.

~2~ White Fury: The shining blade must pay for endangering the chosen and the damages inflicted on your Justicar Brothers. Markis, a spy working for our order has some leads on where the Shining Blade is hiding. You may take this quest to follow markis.

SHINING BLADE BRANCH:

Quest: To Blood Stonefen
The shining blade tells you that their order is made of former chosen and that the Unseen Gods are blood hungry deities that sacrifice the chosen over a powerful bloodstone deep within the jungle fen. The shining blade invite you to join them and see the evil for your owns eyes.

Armor: In Henge of Denravi, the armor crafter offers normal Shining Blade Armor and a quest chain that leads to him offering 15k Shining Blade Armor. The weapon crafter also offers a quest chain that allows you to unlock unique shining blade weapons.

From this point on the game continues normally. You also will acquire a Shining Blade hero by completing an optional quest path.

WHITE MANTLE BRANCH:

Quest: Retaliation: Markis has discoverd the wherabouts of a key shining blade outpost in quarrel falls. Journey to henge's pass and take out the shining blade scouts on the way to learn more about this hideout and plan an attack from the Sage Lands

Mission: The Sage Lands
You raid quarrel falls and defeat a prominant shining blade leader, Alari Doubleblade. The chosen are reclaimed and we have exacted vengence for our lost brothers.

White Mantle Main Town: Sanctum Keep (The white mantle castle in riverside). There is a White Mantel Armor crafter and the weapon crafter also offers a quest that leads to the crafting of white mantle weapons.

Quest: To Bloodstone Fen (White Mantle)
You are tasked with defending a caravan of chosen on the way to bloodstone fen from shining blade raiders.

Mission: Bloodstone Fen (White Mantle)
Defend the chosen on the way to bloodstone fen. Defend Justicar Hablion as he completes a ritual atop the bloodstone.

*Cutscene*
At the end of the ritual Hablion kills the chosen. Enraged your character draws a weapon on the Justicar asking why this just happened. The Justicar explains that the sacrfice is necessary to save all of Tyria. He tells you that perhaps it is time for you to have the honor of meeting the unseen gods and learning the truth of the world.

Quest: The trial
Prove your loyalty to the white mantle and earn your right to see the unseen gods by enduring the trial of fire. In this mission you journey to whispers pass, an ancient place covered with sly traps. This is where many mantle have failed.

Mission: Whisper's Pass
A mission in which you confront a massive labryinth inhabited by the angry spirits of former chosen. At the end of this mission, a gate takes you to the door of Komalie.

*Scene*
You meet the Mursaat, the "unseen gods." They explain themselves as a powerful race of spellcasters that have the ability to bind souls through the keystone, a powerful bloodstone handed down by the gods that is in their possession. The use the stone to control the door of Komalie, which seals an ancient evil fortold by the flameseeker prophecies. If the door shall open, the world will end.

Major Outpost: Sealed Komalie, 15k armor is available here. Also a mursaat also offers Infusion on armor to protect their allies from the mursaat's natural touch.

Quest: Komalie's Breach
The door becomes unstable and a titan monster bursts into Sealed Komalie. Stop Oberon Aramus and his minions before they wreak havoc over the mursaat stronghold.

The mursaat explain that even though the high price of human souls is sealing the door, a powerful artifact known as the sceptor of orr is influencing the gate. Go to the Riverside Temple and meet with Dina's, the Scepter's keeper in order to reclaim the artifact and control it before it deals any more damage to Komalie.

Quest: Hunting the Scepter
A boat from the ring of fire takes you from the fire islands of the mursaat to stingray strand. Markis awaits with further instructions.

Mission:
Markis has revealed that the Shining Blade intend to raid the Sanctum Temple and claim the sceptor. Make haste to the temple and stop the Shining Blade from recovering the artifact. You make it just in time to see Dina's betray the mantle and hand the scepter over to the chosen.

Quest: Defend Sanctum Keep
A large army of unnatural undead have stormed the castle. Dispatch the undead and protect confessor dorian while he makes his escape.

Quest: Ancient Rotscale
The Shining Blade has given the scepter to a powerful Vizer known as Khilbron. It is said that the Vizer has been responsibly for the destruction of the Orrian Kingdom and that he and the sceptor were granted arcane powers by a legendary serpent that dwells within Majesty's Rest.

Mission: Majesty's Rest
Defeat rotscale in majesty's rest to learn the truth about the scepter. After its defeat. Rotscale tells you that the scepter has been imbued with dark powers that can control the souls of the dead, which is why it can influence the door. The dragon was fooled by the vizer, who used the dragon's arcane boon to unlock the sceptor's powers to become immortal, rather than saving his own kingdom. His awakening as the lich was what destroyed Orr, tainting Rotscale and transforming the city into wandering dead. The only way you stand a chance at defeating him is to undergo the trials of ascension in the desert and meeting the keeper of the flameseeker prophecies, glint.

**Normal Ascension Quests take place**

When you return ascended the white mantle has pushed the Shining Blade deep into the shiverpeaks, where they are harbored by the Deldrimor Dwarves. They plan on making a last stand at Thunderhead Keep. You must stop the vizer and the shining blade he manipulates before he unlocks the scepter's true powers.

Mission: Thunderhead Keep
Siege the fort of deldrimor and stop the Vizer before he releases the scepter's power. In the end the vizer summons a huge undead army and confessor dorian dies.

Quest: Escape Death's Grasp
Retreat back to the Iron Mines of Moladune, and warn Markis of the undead horde.

Mission: Iron Mines of Moladune.
Defend the mines from the undead and dwarven armies. At the end the remaining mantle barely survive. The Vizer also reveals himself as the undead Lich and his plan to control the forces behind the door with the scepter's powers.

Quest: Flames of Wrath
You return to the ring of fire to find the mursaat defenses completely devastated by the undead armies and the lich. White mantle and shining blade stragglers both struggle to fight back the undead.

Mission: Ring of Fire
Battle through the undead hordes and use the mursaat's defenses to aid you in reaching the door of komalie before the lich does. Saving surviving mursaat allows them to activate seals and towers around the fort to make the mission easier. In the end you are too late the the lich opens Komalie and many mursaat in Komalie are wiped by the titans. In the end the Mursaat Guardians accept their demise as fit punishment for playing god with the souls of man.

Mission: Hell's Precipice
Same as normal, stop the undead lich from destroying the world.

This is just an example of how path splits and a progressive story can allow you to see both sides of the coin and further expand your character. The stories of the Kurzick and Luxon were much like this but were missing intergral plot components to make it work. We know nothing of why the kurzicks and luxons started their fight or where the hatred came from. There is no history or lore in the quests from each side that explain just what happened to the warring sides in the years after the jade wind.

There would also be quests outside of the main branches like Sorrows Furnace for players to take in order to gain outside rewards and benefits.

In doing a split and giving the player a choice, the player has to be rewarded with knowledge on just what that faction is fighting for and what their goals are. For example, in the above white mantle split you get to see what the white mantle were after and the ability to judge if they are truly evil or not.

This is an example of just one major split that changes the whole game. The game should have many smaller splits leading to different events and revelations. Perhaps ascalon quests the show why the charr worship titans or how they used the searing on ascalon.

The quests in Factions and many Guildwars quests seem pretty mindless, and don't really contribute much to the game's overall plot. Alot of the game's major events are blacked out, like the origins of the searing, links between the charr and titans, and so many other things that can make quests worthwhile to do.

Just wanted to get this out while chapter 4 is in the works. I think better storytelling, more lore, and choices in the story that reveal more information about the game world itself and also offer a new experience will definetly better the guild wars experience as a whole.

Heroes

The hero system is a good step in the RPG direction for Guildwars. However I find it disappointing that instead of being plot rich additions to the guild wars universe, these heroes are simply fillers in answer to the NPC henchie gripes and party slot openings that were voiced by the community. It seems as if these characters were given a background and potential for a story but these aspects were never finished. We end up finishing nightfall without really knowing alot about the characters, only simple details that seems to spawn out of nowhere, like Koss and Melonni's relationship and Tahlkora being involved somehow. Most players ended up scratching their heads wondering wtf was going on when that scene at bone palance hit.

Hero stories should be improved to give the heros personality, quests that unfold the personal details of each hero. A number of these things may include how Acolyte Jin's family was killed, the connection between Dunkoro and his son via quests in the crystal desert, or more on Koss and Melonni's relationship. These quests can be improved by rewarding the player with hero skills points and perhaps even Hero Armors.

I think the that community would agree that questing along a path that allows them to learn much more about the hero rather than just fightning in some random challenge missions for a chance drop of hero armor would be much more fun.

For example, there could be a chain of quests in the Crystal Desert in which Dunkoro follows in the footsteps of his son towards the tomb of primevil kings that ends with an armor reward.

Ways of Improving of Questing and Rewards

~Completing quests reveals more lore about the story, why a specific side is involved in combat (such as why the luxons and kurzicks fight). It makes absolutely no sense to have a massive conflict going on over an entire continent and no history to back it up.

~Access to unique areas. Some of these new outposts might be integral to the story and some might be optional or pvp linked. Quests should be geared as guidance tools to allow players access to new areas that would otherwise be blocked off. Discovery itself is a rewards for players.

~Access to new shop options, including weapon sellers that offer unique skins or armor.

~The ability to change the flow of the game depending on who the player is questing for. The story should be splittable to allow you to discover the motives behind two different sides of a conflict.

~Access to unique skills.

~As stated before, improvements to revealing the plot and motive behind heros and hero specific quest rewards.

~Access to fun PVP arenas.

Regions

We all know the the eschovald and the Jade Sea are vastly different. Having a Luxon and Kurzick armor crafter was a good idea, but collecters and weaponsmiths should improve their weapon selection to have items specific to a certain region. With over 15 heros that aren't account specific we will need weapons, lots of them. However collecters offer the same skins across the entire game regardless of where they are.

~Quests could be linked to regional weaponsmiths/armorsmiths to allow an extended inventory of more unique skins and armors. This process would increase the value of many collecter items and kill economic inflation.

~Craftable skins would be region specific, as in the kurzick weaponsmith of house zu heltzer offering to craft one of a kind kurzick weapons. This includes an endgame crafter.

~Regional weapons are also applied to NPCs of that region. It's pretty bland to see kurzick and luxon warriors carrying the same healing staff from presearing. Alot of detail has been put into the world achitecture, why ruin it all by giving NPCs the exact same weapons across the entire game? Kurzick's are kurzicks, and should carry gear that reflects their culture. Stoneheaded hammers with gargoyle faces, or maybe old english gothica looking blades. These weapons should be available at the Kurzick weaponsmith. This would actually make discovering new outposts worthwhile. Of course there will still be rare skinned weapons that will always soar in value, but having a unique selection of regional smiths would help goldsink the economy. Some weapons can also be bumped to 10-20 plat in cost with some rare materials involved to entice players to build unique gear rather than spam WTB over the local channel for 20 hours.

Mystic- · Jan 03, 2007, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Nice thread. I agree GW does lack the real "RPG" aspect with it's quests and missions etc. NF was very disapointing for me as I thought that the "RPG" aspect would finally be here but as I soon found out it wasn't. Your idea on split questing is a very good one and if implemented could go a very long way although I very much doubt it will be.

Spirit_Axery · Jan 03, 2007, 06:08 AM // 06:08

/signed

Really good idea. Now if only they'd incorporate this model and stop fishing their voice actors out of the gutter- with the exception of "The Koss", who was stupendous- GW would have a half decent RPG mixed with it's traditional PvE mission-based-meat-grinder.